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Tchoř
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Talk:Wp/cop/Ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ
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== Terminology ==
We need terminology for the different stages of Egyptian:
*Old Egyptian ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ
*Middle Egyptian
*Late Egyptian
*Demotic Egyptian
*Coptic Egyptian ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲃⲉⲣⲓ or, maybe better, ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲙⲟⲩⲓ. We could use the word ⲙⲟⲩⲓ, which is traditionally only used in Fayyumic in the sense of "new", as the Coptic word for "modern", what do you think? We could then avoid ⲃⲉⲣⲓ 'new', as Late Egyptian is labelled 'New or Neo-Egyptian' in some languages (and it is the language of the 'New Kingdom').
--[[User:ⲕⲁⲣⲩⲛⲏ]], 18.08.2017
:What about the following:
*Old Egyptian = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲣⲟ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ
*Late Egyptian = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲣⲟ `ⲛⲃⲉⲣⲓ
*Demotic Egyptian = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲡⲓⲥⲏⲟⲩ `ⲛⲟⲩⲉⲓⲛⲓⲛ
*Coptic Egyptian = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲙⲟⲩⲓ. ⲙⲟⲩⲓ to introduce in Bohairic with the meaning "modern" is a good idea.
I think we should then move this page to ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲙⲟⲩⲓ.
--[[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]], 18.08.2017
:And we should also look for a term for 'hieroglyphs'. In hieroglyphic egyptian, it is (Sš-nj-)mdw.w-nṯr '(script of the) words of god'. Therefore, we can take this as a basis. The regular outcome would be ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲟⲩϯ - which can also mean 'godhood, divinity'. To clarify, it should be ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲛⲟⲩϯ. What do you think? --[[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]], 18.08.2017
::ⲧⲉⲉⲓ ⲧⲉ ⲟⲩⲓⲇⲉⲁ `ⲛⲟⲩϥⲓ!! --[[User:ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ϧⲉⲛ ⲥⲟⲩ ⲓⲅ `ⲛⲙⲉⲥⲱⲣⲉ |ⲁⲯⲗⲅ
:::ⲙⲁⲣⲉⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲡⲁⲓϣⲁϫⲓ --[[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ϧⲉⲛ ⲡⲓⲁⲃⲟⲧ `ⲛⲙⲉⲥⲱⲣⲉ
:::: I kind of think now we should label Coptic Egyptian different than ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲙⲙⲟⲩⲓ. Although I still think we can adopt ⲙⲟⲩⲓ into Bohairic (phonologically, it looks Bohairic anyway), I don't think it is actually very practicable here. Because we need to differentiate Old Coptic and New Coptic, and ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲙⲙⲟⲩⲓ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ is a bit cumbersome ("Old New/Modern Egyptian"). So, we could take ⲕⲩⲃϯ or ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ for those cases where we need to specify the stages of Egyptian. Both are sometimes used in Coptic texts instead of ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ, i.e. ⲡⲓⲗⲟⲅⲟⲥ `ⲛⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ instead of ϯⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ. ⲕⲩⲃϯ is derived from قبطي, but of course, both are ultimately from ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ, which is itself from hw.t k3 ptḥ.
:::: I would strongly urge to adopt one of these words, so that we can express "Old Coptic" as [ⲁⲥⲡⲓ (`ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ)] `ⲛⲕⲩⲃϯ/`ⲛⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ. Given the many discussions we experience here on whether or not we can use Greek-looking words and so on, I want to have a discussion here which one we should use, or if anybody comes up with another possibility, please write it here. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 02:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
:::: I like ⲕⲩⲃϯ over ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ. And I think we should use it instead of the construction with ⲙⲟⲩⲓ. Lets wait what other people say. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 14:48, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
::::: Yes, lets move that page to ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲕⲩⲃϯ. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 14:20, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
There is no such word as ⲕⲩⲃϯ in Coptic. It is an error to adopt a word into Coptic from Arabic where a perfectly good and, most importantly, attested form already exists in Coptic. As someone has already mentioned, the original adjectival form is ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ from the Greek but there are several 'Copticised' variants of this spelling such as ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ, ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲥ and ⲅⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲥ preserved in Sahidic only(?). I suggest ϯⲁⲥⲡⲓ (ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ) ⲛ̀ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ or ϯⲙⲉⲧⲕⲩⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ as the the most acceptable and grammatically sound terms (i.e. ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟ-ⲛ is the adjectival form for inanimates as opposed to ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟ-ⲥ) specifically for "Coptic language" as a stage of the Egyptian language. -AB
:I don't know why you think ⲕⲩⲃϯ doesn't exist in Coptic? What? I am pretty sure it is influenced by Arabic, but it is not an ad hoc loan, as the spelling would be totally different. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 23:59, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
::You'll have to show me an attestation of such a word in a Coptic text. I've never come across such a spelling and I have been looking at this topic for quite a while. To me it is clearly an Arabic word, which was obviously borrowed from Coptic/Greek but has been completely Arabised and even contains the Arabic nisbe. Why do you think the spelling would be different? As far as I can see, *ⲕⲩⲃϯ is an Arabic word that has been written in Coptic characters just like if I was to coin the word *ⲁⲗⲙⲁⲛⲓ for German. If you want authentic Coptic terms and expressions you need to consult primary Coptic sources (literary and documentary). -AB
:Why should anyone use ⲩ in an Arabic loanword? That is totally odd, for both past and present texts. If it were loaned now, Copts would rather write it ⲕ/ⲭⲓⲡϯ or ⲕ/ⲭⲉⲡϯ. Also, Greek endings have often been omitted with common Greek nouns in Coptic, and the way from ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓ to ⲕⲩⲃϯ is not especially hard, even more so because ⲁⲓ is often monophthongized. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 15:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
:: The letters ⲓ and ⲩ are (generally) pronounced the same in both the so-called "Old Bohairic" pronunciation and the "Graeco-Bohairic" pronunciation so it is neither here nor there whether iota or upsilon is used. Further, both these letters were often confused even in classical Sahidic and Bohairic (just like kappa/gamma were confused particularly in words of Greek origin), e.g. from 8th century Theban Sahidic ⲫⲓⲥⲓⲥ (< φύσις) and ⲉⲡⲩⲑⲩⲙⲉⲓⲁ (< ἐπιθυμία). In any case, unless it can be shown that *ⲕⲩⲃϯ was used in actual Bohairic texts while the language was still alive then the orthography must be assumed to be a modern transcription of the Arabic word. As I said, I've consulted many sources and I've never seen this writing so it is either modern, or possible late medieval, but in either case appears to be heavily/completely Arabised. It makes no sense at all to use an unattested form like *ⲕⲩⲃϯ over the numerous attested forms based on ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ that I mention above (there are others). It is the *attestation* that is vital. I'd be grateful if you could provide a reference in a primary source for the form *ⲕⲩⲃϯ. -AB
:Hello, ⲕⲩⲃϯ is mentioned as a Bohairic variant by Werner Vycichl in the Dictionnaire Étymologique de la Langue Copte. Furthermore, it seems that ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲥ is not actually Greek, but - because of the ai - Aramaic (ˀāḡēḇṭāy) and then got a bit Grecized. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 14:18, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:: Vycichl says "La forme ⲕⲩⲃϯ 'Copte' s'inspire de la forme arabe قبطي qui en dérive" (Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue copte, p. 5), which is what I wrote above. He does not give any reference, which is disappointing. If he is right that it occurs in a Bohairic(?) text, it is almost certainly rare and far less common than the usual ⲁⲓⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ etc forms I have given above, which are attested in both literary texts (e.g. Panegyric on Macarius of Tkow) and documentary texts (see Hans Förster, Wörterbuch der griechischen Wörter in den koptischen dokumentarischen Texten). Furthermore, as I have said, such a text must have been very late - at a time when the language was essentially dead and Egyptians were linguistically Arabised. Even the Scala Magna (13th-14th century) gives the form ⲁⲅⲓⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ for قبطي (Athanasius Kircher, Lingua aegyptiaca restituta, p 80).
:: Whether ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲥ etc are forms via Aramaic or not (source?) is interesting but not relevant to the question since many words entered Coptic from many source languages. The fact that they were used and understood by Egyptians/Copts speaking their language makes those words Coptic.
:: Whether or not ⲕⲩⲃϯ actually occurs, the evidence is heavily in favour of the actual and regularly attested form used in literary and documentary texts. Despite Vycichl's undoubted calibre as a Coptologist, it would be a mistake to simple used a dictionary form for which he does not give a reference but nevertheless explicitly states its derivation from Arabic. I really don't understand the your commitment to this suspect, late, Arabised form when we have authentic forms, which were used by Copts/Egyptians in their daily speech when the Coptic language was alive? Is it because of some sort of aversion to Greek (forms)? -AB
::: Are you talking to me? I am fine with almost any of the variants. There are people here who try to avoid Greek forms, but بطرس مرقس is not one of those, as he actually often defends the use of Greek. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 22:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:::: I'm glad to hear it ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ. I find that an aversion to Greek is common among Copts/Egyptians these days, but this is based on a misunderstanding of what the Coptic language. This notion, still current, seems to have originated among mid/late 18th century Coptic revivalists such as Claudius Labib. This is not to take anything away from the efforts and achievements of CL and others, but it is vital to correct some of the errors of the past for the sake of the (Neo-)Coptic language. It's been interesting discussing this topic with you and I hope you'll take some of my points on board. -AB
::::: Dude, I don't have anything against Greek, but I have a lot against you. Look of how you started to write here, thinking that you have to explain the actual situation to us dumb people. Writing ⲕⲩⲃϯ with an asterisk because you absolutely did not accept its existence.
:::::"You'll have to show me an attestation of such a word in a Coptic text" - nobody has to show you anything. I won't proof the existence of a word that exists anyway.
:::::"If you want authentic Coptic terms and expressions you need to consult primary Coptic sources (literary and documentary)" - I am tired of Europeans/Americans who think they can explain the world to us. Stick to your Sahidic primary sources and leave us alone. You should learn manners, my dear colonialist. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 22:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:::::: I see that you're upset, Botros. This was not my intention. I like to explain, not to patronise (as you seem to see it), but to show my reasoning where my conclusions differ. Besides, I can hardly be expected to know what people know and what they don't know. For your information, I'm a Copt and every bit as Coptic as anyone - not a "colonialist" as you inexplicably assumed; and Bohairic is my primary dialect, though I have also studied Sahidic. I don't understand what you find so offensive about citing Sahidic sources? I mentioned Sahidic texts because ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲥ and its variants are, as far as I know, excepting medieval Bohairic scalae, exclusively attested in Sahidic texts and only following the Arab conquest. Ⲙ̀ⲡⲉⲣϫⲱⲛⲧ ⲉ̀ⲣⲟⲓ ϩⲓⲛⲁ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉⲛⲉⲣϩⲱⲃ ⲛⲉⲛⲉⲣⲏⲟⲩ, ⲡⲁⲙⲉⲛⲣⲓⲧ ⲛ̀ϣⲫⲏⲣ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ. -AB
== ⲛⲓϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ ==
Should not it be '''ⲡⲓ'''ϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ in stead of '''ϯ'''ϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ? I remember seeing it as masculine noun in the dictionary, as most nouns that start with ϫⲓⲛ. Please, correct me if I am wrong. --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 07:24, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
Both is OK. The prefix ϫⲓⲛ- (in other dialects ϭⲓⲛ- and ⲕⲓⲛ-) can be used with both genders. If you're interested in the historical development: It comes from Demotic gy (pronounced *ki) which means 'manner, form, kind'. You have it in forms like gy n wnm ('manner of eating') > Coptic ϭⲓⲛⲟⲩⲱⲙ / ϫⲓⲛⲟⲩⲱⲙ 'eating; food'.
In Demotic this gy and therefore all words with gy- are masculine. In all non-Bohairic Coptic variants, it is feminine. In Bohairic, both is possible, although the masculine form is more common. So Bohairic is grammar-wise more conservative here; therefore, of course, feel free to use ⲡⲓϫⲓⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ. --[[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 21 September 2017
== اللغة القبطية في القبطية ==
OK, so as we have a discussion here, I would like you to write down your prefered variant. Please write your name under the variants you accept and feel free to add other variants you like. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 22:59, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
=== ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛ[?] ===
==== ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲛ ====
In the absence of any strong evidence for an attested from *ⲕⲩⲃϯ/ⲕⲩⲡϯ, I support the use of the "regular" and attested form ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲛ as the (inanimate) adjectival form to refer to the Coptic stage of the language. The other variant spellings of this word are due to the fact that (i) The diphthong was pronounced something like /ε/ by Egyptians hence the variant forms replacing ⲁⲓ with ⲁ/ⲉ or omitting it completely in spelling and; (ii) as is well known, there was frequent interchange between ⲕ/ⲅ. Since the variations in orthography are wide with no evidence of any form that can be considered an "Egyptianised" standard, I think that the "root" form, which is also no less commonly attested than the variant forms, should be adopted. - AB
I'm fine with this. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 00:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
==== ⲅⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ ====
==== ⲕⲩⲃϯ ====
I'm fine with this. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 00:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:Also OK and actually attested for Bohairic, so I like it. I would like to have a distinction between "Coptic" and "Egyptian", which is unfortunately necessary. ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲛ just means Egyptian for me, not Coptic. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 15:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:: Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ, I would like to know the reference for the attestation. Can you give this please? - AB
::: Isn't the dictionary enough :) [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 17:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:::: For my own interest and deeper understanding, I'd like to know the reference for the attestation. This will help establish (i) what type of document(s) it was attested in (ii) the dialect/variety of that/those document(s) (Vycichl doesn't say) (iii) the date of the document(s) in question and (iv) how widely it was used or if it was a one off writing/aberration. I think all of these factors are relevant. Also, even dictionaries contain errors and so any form given without reference must be treated with caution. Of all the Coptic etymological dictionaries, it is generally held that Vycichl tends to be the most comfortable with giving tenuous/speculative etymologies (Černý being the most conservative and Westendorf lying somewhere between them). If you or anyone else can provide an(y) attestation(s) I would be very grateful. - AB
:I am still in favor of ⲕⲩⲃϯ. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 00:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:My vote goes to ⲕⲩⲃϯ too. The reason is the distinction between Coptic and Ancient Egyptian did not exist back then. Hence, I've no problem using ⲕⲩⲃϯ even if it's just a new term that we came-up with, as the word Coptic/Copti is used in every other language when referring to the Coptic stage of the Egyptian language. --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 23:04, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
==== ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ ====
I'm fine with this. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 00:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:My favorite. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 15:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
ⲛⲁⲛⲉⲥ ( يوسف ) الثلاثاء 20 فبراير
:If y'all want this, then I shall accept it. So that we can finally move on. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 00:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:I also don't mind this as one of the attested Sahidic variants of ⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ. - AB
:I prefer this one over other variants too as it's actually attested and looks kinda compromise. --[[User:Bloomaround|ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ]] ([[User talk:Bloomaround|talk]]) 23:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
==== ⲕⲩⲡϯ ====
I'm fine with this. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 00:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:Also OK. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 15:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
:I like ⲕⲩⲡϯ too. [[User:بطرس مرقس|بطرس مرقس]] ([[User talk:بطرس مرقس|talk]]) 00:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:I also have no problem with ⲕⲩⲡϯ as an alternative to ⲕⲩⲃϯ. --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 23:06, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
=== Conclusion ===
'''ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ''' got the most popularity, so can we take it for "Coptic"? [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 22:37, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
:So, as both ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ and ⲕⲩⲃϯ/ⲕⲩⲡϯ seem to be pretty popular, with ⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ a bit more, I will move the Coptic language page. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 15:51, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
==== ¿¿ ⲘⲞⲨⲒ !! ====
Furthermore, please contribute to the discussion of what should happen with ⲙⲟⲩⲓ, which we used spontaneously for "modern" (as in Modern Egyptian = Coptic). We may not need it to describe Coptic anymore, but it would still be nice to have a word which specifically means "modern", not just "new" in Standard Coptic. Actually, ⲙⲟⲩⲓ / ⲙⲟⲩⲟⲩⲓ is a Fayyumic word meaning "new". It would be the same in Bohairic and ⲙⲟⲩⲉ ⲙⲟⲩⲟⲩⲉ in Sahidic, where it is not preserved accept for in the word "island" ⲙⲟⲩⲓ, which is supposed to be a derivation of it in the sense that an island is the "new (land)". As we already have to established Bohairic words which are spellt ⲙⲟⲩⲓ, namely "island" and "lion", it would be nice not to take over this word, if at all, into Bohairic as ⲙⲟⲩⲓ, but rather ⲙⲟⲩⲟⲩⲓ. In any case, I think we would need a word which means "modern" in Neo-Bohairic, and everybody with an idea is welcome to contribute. [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 16:01, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
::I thinks that's a nice word for "modern", and we also could create a whole bunch of other words using it. But i was always wondering and couldn't really find an information on this topic – should we pronounce words like ⲙⲟⲩⲟⲩⲓ with a glottal stop? [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|talk]]) 12:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
== ϯⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛϦⲣⲱⲟⲩ ==
Hello [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]]. I believe that in most cases, Coptic '''ⲃⲏⲧⲁ''' "ⲃ" is pronounced as '''/w/''' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labio-velar_approximant <sup>1</sup>] (voiced labio-velar approximant) [like English W in Week; and Arabic وَ] before vowels or '''/b/''' otherwise, in the original/authentic/old pronunciation (there's another pronunciation known as the greco-bohairic which is used by the church and pronounce it as /β/ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_bilabial_fricative <sup>2</sup>], you probably already knew that, because the rest of your table is based on the authentic pronunciation). So, I suggest replacing the /v/ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_labiodental_fricative <sup>3</sup>] (voiced labiodental fricative) with /w/ and /b/. --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 04:42, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Also in some cases, Coptic '''ⲧⲁⲩ''' "ⲧ" is pronounced as /t/ if it was the last letter in the word. --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 05:15, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:Yes, you're absolutely right about "ⲃ", i'll change it. I was also about to write all the thing you've mentioned above below the table (because i couldn't find a way to fit all in one table). Thank you. [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|talk]]) 22:07, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
:: No, thanks to you more [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]] for your efforts! --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 05:39, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:The pronunciation is a bit tricky, depending on which method you follow. Obviously, I don't think the current pronunciation followed by many church members is correct. But even as far as the traditional pronunciation is concerned, there can be different results for how to pronounce a letter, depending on the time you refer to as "correct Coptic". If we talk about Coptic as it was probably spoken in the early 2nd millennium in Lower Egypt (= Bohairic), it is a different result than traditional Coptic before the Graeco-Bohairic pronunciation reform. ⲃ is pronounced v or b according to the former, and w or b according to the latter. (Because the latter was already influenced by the phonology of Arabic native speakers). There are many other cases too.
:As far as ⲫ is concerned, are you sure you want it to stand for /b/ and not for /p/? [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 01:07, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:: I absolutely have no problem with pronouncing the letter 'ⲫ' as /p/ (I would also suggest adding /p<sup>h</sup>/ (not /ph/) and may be we should also keep the /b/). I believe [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] has a point here (though I partially disagree about the 'v'-voice for 'ⲃ'), even though it doesn't matter both in the late old pronunciation (''i.e.,'' Dr [[Wp/cop/ϣⲉⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲙⲁϩⲓⲣ|Emaile Maher]]'s pronunciation) or by the modern Egyptian tongue (due to Arabic influence or not). My reason is that /b/ should ''never'' be pronounced with an 'f'-voice (this is just my non-specialized opinion) (but /p<sup>h</sup>/ could), while 'ⲫ' is still pronounced with an 'f'-voice in a few Coptic words in the old pronunciation. Another reason is that we are already using 'ⲫ' in many loanwords (''e.g.,'' country names) for the 'p' letter and we kinda made it a standard thing here in our Coptic Wiki project. I would also like to suggest adding IPA '/ɣ/' (Voiced velar fricative [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative <sup>1</sup>]) for 'ⲅ'. Thanks [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] and [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]] (again) for your great efforts so far! --[[User:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ|talk]]) 05:39, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Maybe we can have three columns in the table: one which says "Ancient/Original Coptic" pronunciation (with ⲫ for p in Egyptian words (ⲫ in Greek is f)), the "Traditional Coptic" one (late Coptic, where ⲫ tended to be b because the Copts were already influenced by the Arabic phonology) and the Graeco-Bohairic one. We could say that in the Wikipedia, we use the Ancient/Original Coptic one. But maybe we can mention Graeco-Bohairic so that users know what's going on. (Copts who learn Coptic in their churches tend to use Graeco-Bohairic). [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 14:35, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Yeah, that's a good idea. By the way what word should we use for "pronunciation" (ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁϫⲓ maybe?) and for "Graeco-Bohairic"? Should we call it something like "ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁϫⲓ `ⲛⲉⲕⲕⲗⲏⲥⲓⲁ" or "ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁϫⲓ `ⲛⲟⲩⲉⲓⲛⲓⲛ"? [[User:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ|talk]]) 14:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::Coptic has ϫⲓⲛⲃⲉⲃⲓ for "pronouncing" (literally pouring out, bringing up), we could use that for pronunciation? What about ϫⲓⲛⲃⲉⲃⲓ `ⲙⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲉⲓⲛⲓⲛ? I would call it "Greek pronunciation", who knows what the Coptic Church will chose in the next years (there are discussions). [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 17:59, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
== Content ==
I know that ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ is just the normal word for "Coptic", but it also means "Egyptian", and from a scholarly standpoint, it would be good to differentiate carefully. Which makes me wonder if an article called ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ should rather be about the "Egyptian language" from like 3000 BC onwards. And everything specifically about Coptic should be under [[Wp/cop/ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲕⲩⲡⲧⲁⲓⲟⲛ]], just as we also have a section about Demotic Egyptian ([[Wp/cop/ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲥⲁϧϣⲏ]]), and (eventually) also Late Egyptian, Middle Egyptian and Old Egyptian ([[Wp/cop/ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ]]). [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 17:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
: Why not the other way around? Old Egyptian = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ⲁⲡⲁⲥ, Coptic = ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ. --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 17:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
:: It is not an urgent issue so we can leave it probably as it is. And, I'm not advocating for changing the default word for "Coptic" to anything other than just ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ. But in the linguistics articles we need to be more precise. Using ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ for "Coptic" would create problems if we want to express "Old Coptic" (which is its own chronological layer). Does it mean "Old Coptic" then or "Old Egyptian". It also sounds like ⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ `ⲛⲁⲡⲁⲥ could refer to everything and anything pre-Coptic; instead, it should just mean "Old Egyptian" (as spoken roughly in the 3rd millennium BC). [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 17:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
::: What about ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲙ̀ⲃⲉⲣⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ "Early Modern Egyptian" for "Old Coptic"? The other possibility is ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ for "Ancient Egyptian" and ⲁⲥⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ⲁⲡⲁⲥ for "Old Coptic" in sense of "Old Egyptian". In linguistics "old" is usually a latter stage compared to "ancient". --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 12:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:But what is Ancient Egyptian? This is the collective designation of everything from Old Egyptian to Demotic? Or to Late Egyptian? Or is "Ancient Egyptian" just Old Egyptian? We also need to come up with a word for "proto" (which could be ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ or, given the Arabic use, ⲙⲁⲩ or a derivative of it). I mean these chronological steps (time is debated, but it's a rough guide)
*Proto-Egyptian ~ 3500 BC
*(Archaic Egyptian ~ 3000 to 2600)
*Old Egyptian ~ 2600 to 2000
*Middle Egyptian ~ 2000 to 1400
*Late (New) Egyptian ~ 1400 to 700
*Demotic ~ 700 BC to 200 AD (written until 400)
*Coptic (including Old Coptic) since 200 (starting with Old Coptic) [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 15:36, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
:I suggest:
*Proto-Egyptian ⲡⲣⲟⲧⲟⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ or ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϩⲟⲩⲓϯ
:: And what about ϯϣⲉⲣⲡⲁⲥⲡⲓ for protolanguage? [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 15:14, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
*Archaic Egyptian ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ⲁⲣⲭⲏ
*'''Ancient Egyptian''' ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ
*Old Egyptian ~ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲁⲡⲁⲥ
*Middle Egyptian ~ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ ⲙ̀ⲙⲏϯ
*Late (New) Egyptian ~ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ϣⲟⲣⲡⲓ ⲙ̀ⲃⲉⲣⲓ
*Demotic ~ ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲁϦϣⲏ
*Coptic ϯⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 12:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
:: Sounds good! [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 16:02, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
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Hello everyone. I was thinking, shouldn't we use Coptic calendar here at least for people/events connected with Egypt? It's the same way they do it in Persian Wikipedia as far as i know (they use Iranian Solar calendar though). --[[User:Bloomaround|ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ]] ([[User talk:Bloomaround|talk]]) 15:20, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
: I also thought about that. It would be more traditional Coptic. On the other hand, I think the Western Christian calendar system is just to ubiquitous. The Arabic wikipedia doesn't use the Islamic calendar either. And even more importantly, Egyptians also use the Western calendar, the only exception are religious affairs. So, I would stick to the Western calendar here. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 17:49, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
:I would also use the Western calendar, but in any case, you can use the Coptic one too! (maybe you can write the Western dates in parantheses) [[User:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ]] ([[User talk:Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ|talk]]) 15:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
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[[File:Nilometer Rhoda Island Cairo June 1966.jpg|thumb|283x283px|ⲡⲓⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ Ϧⲉⲛ ϯⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ]]
'''ϯⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ''' ⲟⲩⲙⲟⲩⲓ Ϧⲉⲛ [[Wp/cop/ⲓⲁⲣⲟ `ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ|ⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ]] Ϧⲉⲛ [[Wp/cop/ⲕⲁϣⲣⲱⲙⲓ|ϯⲕⲁϣⲣⲱⲙⲓ]] ⲧⲉ. ϯⲣⲁⲃⲏ ⲙ̀ⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲡⲁⲗⲗⲁⲧⲓⲟⲛ ⲙ̀ⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ ⲛⲉ ⲙ̀ⲙⲁⲩ.
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[[File:Nilometer Rhoda Island Cairo June 1966.jpg|thumb|283x283px|ⲡⲓⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ Ϧⲉⲛ ϯⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ]]
'''ϯⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ''' ⲟⲩⲙⲟⲩⲓ Ϧⲉⲛ [[Wp/cop/ⲓⲁⲣⲟ `ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ|ⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ]] Ϧⲉⲛ [[Wp/cop/ⲕⲁϣⲣⲱⲙⲓ|ϯⲕⲁϣⲣⲱⲙⲓ]] ⲧⲉ. ϯⲣⲁⲃⲏ ⲙ̀ⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲡⲁⲗⲗⲁⲧⲓⲟⲛ ⲙ̀ⲡⲉⲧϣⲓⲫⲓⲁⲣⲟ ⲛⲉ ⲙ̀ⲙⲁⲩ.
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== ⲛⲓⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ ==
Today, I learned that there is actually an old Coptic word which refers to hieroglyphic writing! It shows up in the Nag Hammadi texts, specifically in VI, 61,20; 61,30 and 62, 15 of "The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth" (the text is dated to the 2nd century AD). The phrase shows up as ϩⲉⲛⲥϩⲁⲓ̈ ⲛ̄ⲥⲁϩ ⲡⲣⲁⲛ︦ϣ︦; ϩ︦ⲛ︦ⲥϩⲉⲉⲓ ⲛ̄ⲥⲁϩ ⲡⲣⲁⲉⲓϣ; ϩⲛ̄ⲥϩⲁⲉ︦ⲓ ⲛ̄ⲥⲁϩ ⲡⲣⲁⲉⲓϣ which is ϩⲁⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̄ⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ in Bohairic and literally means 'the signs of the scribe of the House of Life'. (ⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ "house of life" is a scriptorium, temple library). So, I guess we move the article to ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ? We can explain that ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲙ̀ⲙⲉⲑⲛⲟⲩϯ is the pre-Coptic name for Hieroglyphs - I think it is still a good name because that's what hieroglyphs would be called if the Hieroglyphic name would have persisted - and who knows, maybe he has. After all, ϩⲁⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̄ⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ shows up only in one paragraph of a text. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 00:54, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:Also, note the difference between -ⲁⲛϣ and ⲱⲛϧ 'life', just in case you wonder. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 02:13, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:: That's greatǃ "Scribe of the House of Life" actually means "soothsayer" and is attested in Bohairic as ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ. --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 22:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
::: OH, and I found the phrase "writing of the scribe of the house of life" in a ptolemaic text too (in Demotic/Hieroglyphic). Seems like they already used it parallel to "divine words" at an earlier period. Which means, there is no need to use ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲙⲙⲉⲑⲛⲟⲩϯ. Maybe we can have a discussion here too [[Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲙ̀ⲙⲉⲧϣⲗⲟⲗ]] [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 13:38, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
::: Also, I wonder if ⲥⲁϧ stands for "writing" and not "scribe" (thus "(writing of the) writing of the house of life"). Judging from the Demotic evidence, this seems more likely. But this doesn't matter for the Coptic outcome. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 13:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: Similary, from Demotic: ⲥⲁϧⲟⲩⲉⲓⲛⲓⲛ "Greek writing" [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 13:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
::: Could it means "writing of soothsayers"? And shouldn't it be ⲥϦⲁⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ? --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 14:36, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:It depends on your hypotheses about the data: What does the ⲥ in ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ stand for; and whether Sahidic ⲥⲁϩⲡⲣⲁⲛ︦ϣ︦ is cognate to ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ instead of ⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 14:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:: ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ is exactly "scribe of the House of life" (see Cherny) so ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ = ⲥⲁϩⲡⲣⲁⲛ︦ϣ︦. --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 17:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:I'm happy to change it. Gunn seems to agree with you. But Cerny says (according to Vycichl) that it is derived from "sb3 n pr ʿnḫ" not from "sš n pr ʿnḫ" so I'm not sure. Did Cerny change his opinion? [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 03:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
:: Cerny says it's from "sš n pr ʿnḫ" in his Etymological dictionary and refers to Gunn and Spiegelberg. --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 08:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
::: I see, you say Vycichl quoted him wrong? Then I change it to ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ? [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 14:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: Looks like he has a separate article on it. But i don't think it changes anything. For Copts it likely was not "writings of the scribe of the house of life" but "writings of soothsayers, magicians" just because they couldn't figure out the etymology and used the suitable terms for unknown letters from the past that looked like something magical. I'm sure we can change it to ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 21:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
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Given that we found the genuine Coptic word for "hieroglyphs" ([[Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ_%60ⲛⲥⲁϧⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ]]), maybe we should change the word for "demotic" too? Obviously, ⲙⲉⲧϣⲗⲟⲗ is just a translation of the Greek demotic. In demotic/hieroglyphic times, sš šʿ.t "document/letter script/writing" was used. While sš is clear, as it shows up in other contexts too and would be ⲥⲁϧ-, šʿ.t "document" does not survive independently in Coptic (at least I think so). But we could reconstruct the vowel in the word. I have found these correspondences:
*šʿ.t = ϣⲏ (noun, but with a different meaning than our word for "document")
*pʿ.t = ⲡⲏ (noun)
*pʿr = ⲡⲏⲣⲓ (noun)
*rʿ = ⲣⲏ (noun)
*wʿb = ⲟⲩⲏⲃ (noun)
*wʿ = ⲟⲩⲁⲓ (numeral)
*wʿ.ṱ = ⲟⲩⲁⲧ (verb)
*ḫʿ = ϣⲁ (verb)
*ḫʿr = ϣⲁⲣⲓ (verb)
It seems like ʿ stands for ⲏ in genuine Egyptian nouns. (ʿ is commonly used to represent Greek a/e in foreign words, but we should exclude them here)
I'm not arguing for introducing a word ϣⲏ "document" as an independent noun, but I wondered if it would be worth it to coin ⲥⲁϧϣⲏ "demotic script", in the phrase ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲁϧϣⲏ. This would then be the exact continuation of sš šʿ.t, without doubt in use from pre-Ptolemaic times to well into the first couple centuries AD, when Coptic was already written. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 14:01, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:So, I found the vocalization of šʿ.t in Vergote 1973 (second vol), page 98. /šīʿa/ for the time of the New Kingdom, which is indeed ϣⲏ. So can we use ⲥⲁϧϣⲏ? Then we would use for both hieroglyphs and demotic script words which were in actual use in the first centuries AD! [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 14:18, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:: I think ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲁϧϣⲏ looks good. --[[User:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ]] ([[User talk:ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ|talk]]) 18:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::: Nice, I shall change it. [[User:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ]] ([[User talk:ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ|talk]]) 16:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
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CommonsDelinker
992
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CommonsDelinker
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User talk:Hloja Niželjska
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Welcoming Bot
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Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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Wt/mad/bhettok
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Lukjsly
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Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhibbhi' === # èbhu; nyannya === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhibbhi'''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # bibi; tante; saudara perempuan dari ayah atau ibu === Conto === # Embu' èntar ka romana '''bhibbhi'''' è Sorbhâjâ. # '''Bhibbhi'''' mellè jhuko' tasè'. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dia..."
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text/x-wiki
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Wt/mad/bhibhik
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3492463
6284623
2024-05-11T12:56:25Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhibhik === # ètèk === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhibhik''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # bebek; itik === Conto === # Embu' aghuring '''bhibhik'''. # Eppa' makanè '''bhibhik''' è budina roma. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian Rakyat. Kaca 67. [[Category:Wt/mad]] Category:Wt/mad/Oca' b..."
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Wt/mad/bhibhit
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3492464
6284624
2024-05-11T13:01:06Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhibhit === # asal; mola # bighi ghâbây tombuwân sè bhâkal è tamen === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhibhit''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # mula; asal; permulaan # bibit; benih === Conto === # Eppa' mellè '''bhibhit''' bhâko. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian Rakyat. Kaca 67. Catego..."
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Wt/mad/bhidhâ
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3492465
6284625
2024-05-11T13:04:21Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhidhâ === # bhindhâ; ta' paḍâ === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhidhâ''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # beda; sesuatu yang berbeda === Conto === # kalambhina Sitti bân alè'en '''bhidhâ''' bârnana. # Eppa' nyarè capèng sè '''bhidhâ''' bi' biyasana. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian..."
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Wt/mad/bhidhâk
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3492466
6284626
2024-05-11T13:07:04Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' lako === === Bhettek === # amassa' kakanan bân-sabbân arè === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhidhâk''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # kepala koki; kepala juru masak === Conto === # Embu' dhâddhi '''bhidhâk''' è bhârungnga anom. # Massa'enna '''bhidhâk''' rowa nyaman sara. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian..."
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Wt/mad/bhidhuk
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3492467
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2024-05-11T13:12:21Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' sèpat === === Bhidhuk === # pètok; bilu' === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhidhuk''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # pencong; kaki yang tidak sempurna === Conto === # Orèng rowa sokona '''bhidhuk'''. # Rohman labu sampè' sokona '''bhidhuk'''. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian Rakyat. Kaca 67. Category:Wt/ma..."
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2024-05-11T13:12:49Z
Lukjsly
2589249
/* Bhidhuk */
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2024-05-11T13:19:31Z
Lukjsly
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/* Bhidhuk */
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Lukjsly
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/* Bhidhuk */
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Wt/mad/bhighâl
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3492468
6284631
2024-05-11T13:15:05Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhighâl === # orèng sè ngèco'an === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhighâl''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # rampok; perampok === Conto === # Orèng rowa sapèdana ècapo' '''bhighâl'''. # Eppa' mèghâ' '''bhighâl'''la sapè. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian Rakyat. Kaca 67. Category:W..."
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Wt/mad/bhijjhâng
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3492469
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2024-05-11T13:19:01Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' sèpat === === Bhijjhâng === # bhijjhât; tèppang; bhidhuk === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhijjhâng''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # pincang; kaki yang tidak sempurna === Conto === # Sokona kocèng rowa '''bhijjhâng'''. # Rofik '''bhijjhâng''' sokona marghâna labu. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian Rakya..."
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2024-05-11T13:24:38Z
Lukjsly
2589249
/* Bhijjhâng */
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Wt/mad/bhijjhât
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2024-05-11T13:23:37Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' sèpat === === Bhijjhât === # bhijjhâng; bhidhuk; teppang; soko sè ta' samporna === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhijjhât''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # memasak makanan sehari-hari === Conto === # Sokona embi' rowa '''bhijjhât'''. # Anom sokona '''bhijjhât''' mon ajhâlân polana loka. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009..."
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Wt/mad/bhikang
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3492471
6284638
2024-05-11T13:27:33Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhikang === # nyamana jhâjhân sè èghâbây ḍâri teppong bhârrâs === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhikang''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # bikang; nama kue yang dibuat dari tepung beras === Conto === # Embu' aghâbây '''bhikang''' è ḍâpor. # Eppa' ngakan '''bhikang''' sè èghâbây embu'. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bah..."
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Lukjsly
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Wt/mad/bhikèr
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3492472
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2024-05-11T13:30:30Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhikang === # nyamana jhâjhân sè èghâbây ḍâri teppong bhârrâs === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhikang''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # mainan yang terbuat dari tempurung kelapa === Conto === # Eppa' aghâbây '''bhikèr'''. # Alè' mènta èghâbâyaghi '''bhikèr'''. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia"...."
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Lukjsly
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Wt/mad/bhikèt
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3492473
6284642
2024-05-11T13:33:15Z
Lukjsly
2589249
Created page with "== Bhâsa Madhurâ == === Oca' bhârâng === === Bhikèt === # pikèt; sakompolan orèng sè alako === Onḍhâgghâ bhâsa === # '''bhikèt''': enjâ'- iyâ (lomra) === Sambhâdhân === Kabbhi === Pertalan === * bhâsa Inḍonèsia: # piket; kelompok atau regu yang melakukan jasa === Conto === # Eppa' aghâbây '''bhikèt'''. # Alè' mènta èghâbâyaghi '''bhikèt'''. == Sombher == Pawitra, Adrian. "Kamus Lengkap Bahasa Madura Indonesia". 2009. Jakarta: Dian..."
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2024-05-11T13:34:34Z
Lukjsly
2589249
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Wp/nit/పంజాబ్
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3492474
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2024-05-11T13:38:13Z
Mothiram 123
2582314
Created page with "'''పంజాబ్''' (ਪੰਜਾਬ) (Punjab) భారతదేశముత ఒకొ రాష్ట్రం. ఇదున్ పోద్ కురిన పక్కఙ జమ్ము- కాశ్మీర్ కేంద్ర పాలిత శివార్, దెయ్యాల మూల పక్క ఙ హిమాచల్ ప్రదేశ్, తెల్లఙడం పక్కఙ హర్యానా, వాన మూలఙ రాజస్..."
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2024-05-11T14:05:29Z
Mothiram 123
2582314
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6284649
2024-05-11T14:58:58Z
Mothiram 123
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/* తొలినిత చరిత్ర */
wikitext
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2024-05-11T15:04:21Z
Mothiram 123
2582314
/* పయ్యతప్పుడ్ చరిత్ర */
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text/x-wiki
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Wp/knc/Liver
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3492475
6284662
2024-05-11T14:22:21Z
Umargana1
2577097
Umargana1 moved page [[Wp/knc/Liver]] to [[Wp/knc/kǝmattǝn]]
wikitext
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Wn/shn/ၼမ်ႉလူၵ်ႈ တီႈ ဢႃႇၾၵၢၼ်ႇၼီႇသတၢၼ်ႇ ၵူၼ်းတၢႆ 300 ပၢႆ
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3492476
6284664
2024-05-11T14:31:54Z
Saimawnkham
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Created page with "{{Wn/shn/Date|May 11, 2024}} {{Wn/shn/ဢႃႇၾၵၢၼ်ႇၼီႇသတၢၼ်ႇ}} [[File:2010 Afghanistan floods.jpg|thumb|left|ၼမ်ႉလူၵ်ႈ တီႈ ဢႃႇၾၵၢၼ်ႇၼိတ်ႇသတၢၼ်ႇ မိူဝ်ႈပီ 2010 (ၶႅပ်းႁၢင်ႈၵဝ်ႇ)]] ၸုမ်းၸၢတ်ႈၸိုင်ႈလုမ်ႈၾႃႉ လႄႈ ၽူႈမီးၸၼ်ႉ လူင်ပွင်ၸိုင်ႈ..."
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Saimawnkham
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Saimawnkham
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Saimawnkham
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Saimawnkham
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Saimawnkham
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Wq/syl/Косово
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3492477
6284670
2024-05-11T14:37:48Z
Пан Хаунд 2
2597454
Created page with "{{Wq/syl/Cquote|Питання Косовa вирішено, тепер це незалежна країна.}} [[Category:Wq/syl]]"
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Пан Хаунд 2
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Пан Хаунд 2
2597454
ꠀꠞ꠆ꠎꠣꠔ ꠃꠁꠇꠤꠞ ꠟꠉꠦ ꠟꠉ ꠟꠣꠉꠣꠁꠀꠞ [[d:Q1244]]
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Пан Хаунд 2
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Пан Хаунд 2
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Пан Хаунд 2
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Пан Хаунд 2
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/* Цитати */
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Пан Хаунд 2
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Wp/lua/Atheism
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3492478
6284682
2024-05-11T14:43:13Z
Chrisdanielkazadi
2595299
Created page with "MALONGA MUDI NZAMBI KAYIKU: Misangu mivule,dibenga Dia kuitabuja ne nzambi udiku tshidi dibenga Dia kuikala anyi dibenga Dia maalu onso adi bantu bitabuja buzambi kapanda budi ku. Muaku ewu mushilangana ne diitabuja Dia nzambi, misangu mivule diunvuija Didi dikale diteku bu kadiena ditokesha ne muaku wa dibenga kuitabuja ne nzambi udiku, ne muaku wa dibenga Dia kuitabuja nzambi,ne muaku wa kulengulula malu a ntendelelu ;bionsu ebi bidi bua kufuanagana. Ke badi dibenga..."
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Module:Wb/syl/Unsubst
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2024-05-11T14:51:26Z
Пан Хаунд 2
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Created page with "local checkType = require('libraryUtil').checkType local p = {} local BODY_PARAM = '$B' local specialParams = { ['$params'] = 'parameter list', ['$aliases'] = 'parameter aliases', ['$flags'] = 'flags', ['$B'] = 'template content' } function p.main(frame, body) -- If we are substing, this function returns a template invocation, and if -- not, it returns the template body. The template body can be specified in -- the body parameter, or in the template parameter..."
Scribunto
text/plain
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Template:Wn/syl/Div col/sandbox
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2024-05-11T14:58:29Z
Пан Хаунд 2
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Created page with "<includeonly><templatestyles src="Wn/syl/Div col/sandbox/styles.css"/><!-- --><div class="div-col {{#ifeq:{{{small|}}}|yes|div-col-small}} {{#ifeq:{{{rules|}}}|yes|div-col-rules}} {{#ifeq:{{{allowbreak|}}}|yes|div-col-brk}} {{{class|}}}" <!-- -->{{#if:{{{colwidth|}}}{{{gap|}}}{{{style|}}}|<!-- -->style="{{#if:{{{colwidth|}}}|column-width:{{{colwidth}}};}}{{#if:{{{cols|}}}|column-count:{{{cols}}};}}{{#if:{{{gap|}}}|column-gap:{{{gap}}};}}{{#if:{{{style|}}}|{{{style}}}}}"<..."
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User talk:Cttctxutdzdutz
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2024-05-11T14:59:02Z
Welcoming Bot
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Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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Kiran sidam
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Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 今朝 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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User talk:Snoopchallenge
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3492505
6284783
2024-05-11T22:46:24Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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User talk:Димас 738
3
3492506
6284785
2024-05-11T22:48:16Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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text/x-wiki
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Wt/wuu/aakir
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6284786
2024-05-11T22:48:56Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 結束 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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6284787
2024-05-11T22:50:41Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 茶壺 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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2024-05-11T22:51:06Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 禮拜天 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wt/wuu/adaan
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2024-05-11T22:52:28Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 宣禮 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wp/czh/菲律賓
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6284790
2024-05-11T23:08:56Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with " '''菲律賓'''是[[Wp/czh/亞洲|亞洲]][[Wp/czh/東南亞|東南亞]]哩一國家,是[[Wp/czh/中華人民共和國|中華人民共和國]]鄰邦。首都[[Wp/czh/馬尼拉|馬尼拉]]。 [[File:PHL orthographic.svg|thumb]] [[Category:Wp/czh]]"
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User talk:Editorvermelho14
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6284791
2024-05-11T23:16:30Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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6284794
2024-05-11T23:35:03Z
Absudar
2108561
Absudar moved page [[Wp/cop/ⲁⲗⲭⲱⲉⲓⲧ]] to [[Wp/cop/Ⲁⲗⲕⲟⲩⲉⲓⲧ]]
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User talk:Eva Cruz R
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3492514
6284797
2024-05-11T23:44:21Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
wikitext
text/x-wiki
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User talk:MinnieRaw
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3492515
6284803
2024-05-12T01:31:38Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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Wp/ppl/Franz Kafka
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3492516
6284804
2024-05-12T02:01:31Z
Eva Cruz R
2597671
Created page with "[[File:Franz Kafka, 1923.jpg|thumb|299x299px|Franz Kafka, tik ne shiwit 1913]] '''Franz Kafka''' (1883 - 1924) yaja se tawawasuani chequiachanej katka. == Ipanpa Franz Kafka. == [[:es:Franz_Kafka#|Franz Kafka]] yaja nesik se tunal yey pal ne metzti chikume tik ne shiwit se shikipil chikwey tzunti nawi pual yey katka. Yaja nesik tik ne techan [[:es:Praga|Praga]] katka. Ne inan itukey Julie Löwy (1856-1934) katka wan ne iteku itukey Hermann Kafka (1852-1931) katka. Yaja..."
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6284805
2024-05-12T02:20:44Z
Eva Cruz R
2597671
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User talk:Test johndoge
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3492517
6284806
2024-05-12T02:18:10Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
wikitext
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Wp/ppl/Gabriel García Márquez
0
3492518
6284808
2024-05-12T02:30:34Z
Eva Cruz R
2597671
Created page with "'''Gabriel José García Márquez''' kaj tiktukeytiat [[:es:Gabriel_García_Márquez|Gabriel García Márquez]], Gabo u Gabito (1927 - 2014) yaja se tawawasuani colombiachanej. == Ipanpa Gabriel García Márquez. == [[File:Gabriel Garcia Marquez.jpg|left|thumb|332x332px|Gabriel García Márquez tik ne shiwit 2002.]] Gabriel García Márquez yaja nesik se tunal chickwasen pal ne metzti yey tik ne shiwit se shikipil chiknawi tzunti se pual chikume katka. Yaja nesik tik ne..."
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User talk:Mojopahit1293
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3492519
6284809
2024-05-12T02:54:37Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
wikitext
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Wt/wuu/adabi
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3492520
6284810
2024-05-12T03:01:17Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 禮貌 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wt/wuu/addunya
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6284811
2024-05-12T03:01:55Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 世界,人民,鈔票 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wt/wuu/alkumenna
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2024-05-12T03:38:02Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 婚姻 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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2024-05-12T03:38:26Z
Crystallus0
2597485
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Wt/wuu/amoyta
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6284814
2024-05-12T03:39:48Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 王,主,蘇丹 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wt/wuu/arbaq
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3492524
6284815
2024-05-12T03:41:35Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 禮拜三 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Wt/wuu/arciba
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6284816
2024-05-12T03:43:54Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 好客 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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Angela satim 0403
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menambah Artikel
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2024-05-12T04:20:32Z
Angela satim 0403
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edit
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User talk:Andttr
3
3492528
6284823
2024-05-12T04:45:11Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
wikitext
text/x-wiki
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User:Crystallus0
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3492529
6284824
2024-05-12T04:45:52Z
Crystallus0
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Created page with "方言只是興趣,但也希望自己能在互聯網上為中國方言的書面化出一份力。 {{#babel:zh-cn|zh-tw-2|en-1|gan-1|yue-1|wuu-1|cjy-1|hsn-1|czh-1|lzh-1|ja-1|nan-0|hak-0|cdo-0|cpx-0}} ==隨便玩玩== *[[wt/wuu|吳語維基辭典]] *[[wt/gan|贛語維基辭典]] *[[wp/hsn|湘語維基大典]] *[[wp/cjy|晉語維基大典]] *普通話維基語錄、導遊、教科書 *方言維基百科 *翻譯"
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2024-05-12T04:46:42Z
Crystallus0
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/* 隨便玩玩 */
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2024-05-12T04:48:29Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 舌頭,火焰 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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2024-05-12T04:55:32Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 汽車 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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6284828
2024-05-12T04:56:00Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 洞 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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6284829
2024-05-12T04:56:46Z
Crystallus0
2597485
Created page with "==阿法爾語== ===名詞=== 房屋 [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語]] [[Category:Wt/wuu/阿法爾語名詞]] [[Category:Wt/wuu]]"
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2024-05-12T05:00:09Z
Crystallus0
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6284830
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Crystallus0
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2024-05-12T04:58:23Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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6284832
2024-05-12T04:59:02Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:01:42Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:03:17Z
Crystallus0
2597485
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6284836
2024-05-12T05:08:37Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:38:50Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:39:48Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:50:25Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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6284848
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Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:51:23Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T05:52:41Z
Crystallus0
2597485
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Crystallus0
2597485
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Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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Crystallus0
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2024-05-12T05:55:02Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T06:00:21Z
Andttr
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create page
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2024-05-12T06:04:51Z
Crystallus0
2597485
// Edit via Wikiplus
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2024-05-12T06:08:23Z
Crystallus0
2597485
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Wq/ms/Nicholas II
0
3492554
6284889
2024-05-12T07:16:02Z
Dnxl09
2596248
Created page with "- Nicholas II - (BIODATA) Nama:Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov Tarikh lahir:18 Mei [O.S. 6 Mei] 1868 Asal:Istana Alexander, Tsarskoye Selo, Empayar Rusia [[File:Mikola II (cropped)-2.jpg|center|thumb|[[:en:Nicholas_II|Nicholas II]] pada tahun 1912]] Nicholas II ialah Maharaja Rusia yang terakhir memerintah, Raja Kongres Poland, dan Grand Duke of Finland dari 1 November 1894 sehingga penyingkirannya pada 15 Mac 1917. Semasa pemerintahannya, Nicholas memberi sokongan..."
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Wq/ms/Grigori Rasputin
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2024-05-12T07:32:10Z
Dnxl09
2596248
Created page with "- Grigori Rasputin - (BIODATA) Nama:Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin Tarikh lahir:21 Januari [O.S. 9 Januari] 1869 Asal:Pokrovskoye, Gabenor Tobolsk, Empayar Rusia [[File:Rasputin PA.jpg|center|thumb|Potret [[:ms:Grigori_Rasputin|Rasputin]], c. 1910-an]] Rasputin adalah seorang ahli mistik dan penyembuh iman Rusia. Dia terkenal kerana berkawan dengan keluarga empayar Nicholas II, Maharaja terakhir Rusia, yang melaluinya dia mendapat pengaruh yang besar pada tahun-tahun..."
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Wp/nup/Madinat ash Shamal
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Ganchin
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2024-05-12T07:37:56Z
105.112.233.184
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105.112.233.184
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Wq/ms/Vladimir Lenin
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2024-05-12T07:40:42Z
Dnxl09
2596248
Created page with "- Vladimir Lenin - (BIODATA) Nama:Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov Tarikh lahir:22 April 1870 Asal:Simbirsk, Empayar Rusia [[File:Lenin in 1920 (cropped).jpg|center|thumb|[[:en:Vladimir_Lenin|Lenin]] pada tahun 1920]] Vladimir Lenin adalah seorang revolusioner Rusia, ahli politik, dan ahli teori politik. Beliau berkhidmat sebagai ketua kerajaan pertama dan pengasas Republik Sosialis Persekutuan Soviet Rusia dari 1917 hingga kematiannya pada 1924, dan Kesatuan Soviet dari 1..."
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2024-05-12T07:42:38Z
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Ganchin
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2024-05-12T08:02:50Z
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2596896
Ganchin
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2596896
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2024-05-12T08:28:05Z
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2596896
Ganchin
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2024-05-12T08:28:57Z
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Wp/jax/Yazid bin Abdul Qadir Jawas
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6284963
2024-05-12T08:48:06Z
Muhamad Izzul Fiqih
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belum selesai
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2024-05-12T09:18:32Z
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2584756
/* Kehidupan awal */ Penambohan info
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Wq/gor/Bertrand Russell
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6284965
2024-05-12T09:03:17Z
Pidopram
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Created page with "Saya berharap saya percaya pada kehidupan yang kekal, karena itu membuat saya cukup menyedihkan untuk berpikir bahwa manusia hanyalah sejenis mesin yang diberkahi, sayangnya untuk dirinya sendiri, dengan kesadaran. [[Category:Wq/gor]]"
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2596467
Adding interwiki links to [[d:Q33760]]
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Wp/dtp/Mahatma Ghandi
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Momoruhang artikel
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2024-05-12T09:10:42Z
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User talk:Associated director Iltija husen
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2024-05-12T09:18:23Z
Welcoming Bot
9525
Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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Wp/dtp/Huang Renjun
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Wp/dtp/Do Kyungsoo
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2024-05-12T09:29:52Z
Wailynnn
2586196
Created page with "[[File:D.O. at the press conference of the film Underdog in January 2019.png|thumb|Do Kyungsoo]] '''Doh Kyung Soo''' toi ko' ngaran pantas nopo dau nga i D.O nopo songulun susuminding om sumingkono mantad Korea Selatan. Nosusu isio ontok 12 Milatok 1993 om poinsuang id tinimungan susuminding (K-Pop) iri no tu EXO. Movie nopo disio nga iri no Pure Love (2016) om My Annoying Brother (2016)."
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Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ
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2024-05-12T09:30:08Z
Absudar
2108561
Absudar moved page [[Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ]] to [[Wp/cop/Ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ]]
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Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ
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6284985
2024-05-12T09:30:08Z
Absudar
2108561
Absudar moved page [[Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ]] to [[Talk:Wp/cop/Ⲥϧⲁⲓ ⲛ̀ⲥⲫⲣⲁⲛϣ]]
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Wp/dtp/Aurel Hermansyah
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6284986
2024-05-12T09:46:15Z
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Wp/cop/ⲣⲟⲙⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
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6284989
2024-05-12T09:49:43Z
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Absudar moved page [[Wp/cop/ⲣⲟⲙⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ]] to [[Wp/cop/Ⲣⲟⲙⲡⲓ ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ]]
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Talk:Wp/cop/ⲣⲟⲙⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ
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3492575
6284991
2024-05-12T09:49:43Z
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2108561
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Wp/cop/ⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ
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2024-05-12T09:53:25Z
Absudar
2108561
Absudar moved page [[Wp/cop/ⲙⲟⲩⲓ ϭⲱⲙ]] to [[Wp/cop/ⲙⲟⲩⲓ̀ ⲙ̀ⲃⲁⲃⲩⲗⲱⲛ]]
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6284995
2024-05-12T09:53:36Z
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2024-05-12T10:08:39Z
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2024-05-12T10:24:49Z
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Welcome to Wikimedia Incubator!
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Wp/dtp/Vatikan
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Wp/dtp/Bayugan
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2024-05-12T10:41:37Z
Ideophagous
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Wp/wal/Dassaalanya Hayilemaariyaama
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6285013
2024-05-12T11:16:39Z
Kehaa
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Wp/tdd/T
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2024-05-12T11:34:39Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
2594652
Created page with "ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥨᥒᥴ T ᥖᥒᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥟᥩᥢᥱ t ᥕᥧᥱ ᥘᥬᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥣᥖᥤᥒ ᥢᥢᥳ ᥙᥥᥢ ᥗᥤᥳ ᥔᥩᥒᥴ ᥔᥤᥙᥴ [[Category:Wp/tdd]]"
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Wp/tdd/U
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2024-05-12T11:41:19Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
2594652
Created page with "ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥨᥒᥴ U ᥖᥒᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥟᥩᥢᥱ u ᥕᥧᥱ ᥘᥬᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥣᥖᥤᥒ ᥢᥢᥳ ᥙᥥᥢ ᥗᥤᥳ ᥔᥩᥒᥴ ᥔᥤᥙᥴ ᥘᥫᥒ [[Category:Wp/tdd]]"
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Wp/tdd/V
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2024-05-12T11:46:40Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
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Created page with "ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥨᥒᥴ V ᥖᥒᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥟᥩᥢᥱ v ᥕᥧᥱ ᥘᥬᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥣᥖᥤᥒ ᥢᥢᥳ ᥙᥥᥢ ᥗᥤᥳ ᥔᥩᥒᥴ ᥔᥤᥙᥴ ᥔᥩᥒᥴ [[Category:Wp/tdd]]"
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Yang Yan Ao Thuan
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2024-05-12T11:49:55Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
2594652
Created page with "ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥨᥒᥴ W ᥖᥒᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥟᥩᥢᥱ w ᥕᥧᥱ ᥘᥬᥰ ᥖᥨᥝ ᥘᥤᥐ ᥘᥣᥖᥤᥒ ᥢᥢᥳ ᥙᥥᥢ ᥗᥤᥳ ᥔᥩᥒᥴ ᥔᥤᥙᥴ ᥔᥣᥛᥴ [[Category:Wp/tdd]]"
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2024-05-12T11:55:00Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
2594652
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2024-05-12T11:58:49Z
Yang Yan Ao Thuan
2594652
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